Nowadays, we have infomercials and pick up artists like Roosh. And while I'll confess I still slow down at the Walgreen counters where "As Seen On TV" products are displayed, I still scoff at the sad sacks who think the secrets of successful seduction can be found in slim missives dispatched from turd world countries.
Although I am contemptuous of PUA, I don't hate the suckers who support this industry: I feel kind of sorry for them.
I don't really hate PUA on principle, or rather I don't hate it more than I hate Cosmopolitan magazine. PUA is like Cosmo for boys. Adolescents are desperately looking for answers to the burning teenage question, "How do I make [people of the opposite sex] desire me?", and these sources give lots of advice, repetitive and reductive and simple-minded to be sure, perhaps reassuring by its very repetitive, reductive simple-minded nature. It's understandable to devour junk when a person is fifteen, but by the time he/she has graduated from college and entered the "real" adult world, it's time to grow up.
Anyway, I'm all for everybody pursuing as much sexual validation as they need or want. What I hate is reducing both men and women to the sums of their worst parts.
My problem isn't with PUA or MRM in theory, it's with
My problem is that I just don't recognize the people who inhabit the PUA/MRM world, where every man is a caged, snarling predator in a gnawing state of priapism, and every woman is either a conniving gold-digger or a maniacal, castrating bitch.
For one thing, nurturing a hateful, resentful, "us against them" mind set is counter-productive to the immediate, pressing concern of getting laid. We won't even think about how it ruins any chance of a long term, emotionally intimate and trusting relationship. C'mon guys, think about it: Roosh gets his dick wet maybe once a month by making pick up his full time job but he's in his mid-thirties now, and he doesn't seem to have ever had a real friend, much less a regular girlfriend. And this is your relationship guru?
People like Roosh or Roissy or (God forbid) Paul Elam are not making the world a better place, that's for sure. And the irony is they're so self-evidently miserable themselves.
What's in that red pill, anyway? Why would anyone want to take it?
Saw your posts on Matt Forneys page. Fascinating how you talk about his obsession with fat girls when you are clearly obsessed with the manosphere.
ReplyDelete"People like Roosh or Roissy or (God forbid) Paul Elam are not making the world a better place, that's for sure."
Yep, helping incels to become successful in life and love (instead of future suicide victims or rapists) is terrible. Absolutely terrible.
But anyway keep on doing your feminist thing, you and the crazies at Jizzabell aren't fooling anyone with your crap ("Patriarchy is the problem help us fight the invisible patriarchy demon which is powered by men but also hurts men but also works entirely for the benefit of men!!!!11" - seriously? lol).
Roosh and co are spreading a practical life-changing message and that is why they are so damn successful. If you want to become more than just another feminist whiner i'd advise you to come up with something better and that starts by TRULY understanding masculinity. Start by reading this article: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainment/story?id=2928386#.UaZ9JkDtgxA
-A PUA who has turned his life around thanks to guys like Roosh.
Thanks for visiting my blog. I doubt you will return to read my response to my comment, but I will only this: Although I don't think the hateful, misogynistic messages of Roosh & Co. are what unsuccessful, loveless men need, I am sympathetic with your pain.
ReplyDelete"Although I don't think the hateful, misogynistic messages of Roosh & Co. are what unsuccessful, loveless men need"
ReplyDeleteOk I can see that there is a lot of negativity and hate in the manosphere but guess what? There's no workable alternative. So we pick through the hate for the good advice that helps us. GoodLookingLoser for example is a lot more self-improvement focused and I think his following will also grow but there wont be any politically correct alternatives to PUA. Men can't even find a safe space to discuss these issues and be taken seriously outside of the sphere.
Just wanted to say that because all the anti-manosphere focus is on "How do we take down these evil websites and stop these evil people". Maybe one day society will accept that masculinity is not inherently evil and that there is more to the conversation than "shut up and check your privilege". Maybe one day they will consider how much of the problem is caused by the way men are marginalised and alienated. Most social justice efforts are adding to the problem instead of solving it.
To the guys who feel that there is no workable solution to PUA, let me offer some advice.
ReplyDeleteFirst, work on confidence and self-acceptance. This is a continuous effort that will improve all areas of your life. If you aren't happy with yourself, it's pretty unlikely that anyone else will be able to make you happy. Confidence is also attractive, so that helps. Make a concerted effort at self-improvement, with short term, achievable goals in service to one or more longer term ones. That might mean working out more, getting better sleep, making time for a hooby that enriches your life, working on grooming and self-care, or making small and affordable adjustments to improve your wardrobe. Do these things for yourself, because they make you feel better, without expecting anything from other people.
Next, give up on the idea that other people owe you stuff. No woman owes you sex or a relationship, not are those things commodities to be bought or traded. Sex and relationships are activities to be participated in. Similarly, stop blaming women for not fucking you/dating you/marrying you. If you keep pursuing those things and it keeps not working, perhaps some self reflection is in order. Resentment is not attractive. Confidence and personal well-being are.
So how to meet women? It's not some secret science, women are people. Go talk to people with friendliness, confidence, and a lack of entitlement, and you should be fine. Keep in mind that at any given time huge numbers of women may not be receptive - they're in an exclusive relationship, just not looking to be in one, tired, busy, or any number of other regular human reasons - and that's ok. Don't take it personally. When you stop thinking people owe you sex and start being genuinely interested in meaningful interactions with people, rejection loses a great deal of its sting. When you're happy with who you are and don't need another person to validate you, sex/dating/marriage becomes icing on the cake of an already full life rather than the sum total of one's existence.
It's really not all that complicated. Building self-confidence takes work, and there aren't any cheat codes. But ultimately it's a much better way to find good sex, and a more fulfilling life, than any sort of pickup artist advice.
This strikes me as good advice for lonely souls of any gender1
DeleteI agree that confidence is the most attractive quality, and it comes from accepting oneself. If a person truly accepts himself/herself, he/she can focus on the other party. And there is nothing in the world more seductive than feeling that someone is really listening to us.
Also, I agree that it's hard to meet members of the desired sex if one is living in a bubble. Expanding one's social network is key. Friends love to fix up their friends, and these matches are often the best. But you've got to make friends first.
There is this guy I found on wordpress who gives advice to lonely, single men on how to pick on women. He himself was an "incel" and improved his situation by college, and is using his experiences to give advice. He is openly against PUA and the manosphere, saying they are misogynistic hate sites. He also has a lot of followers, which gives me hope. It shows that a guy can be desperate and lonely, and still not fall into this crap. I honestly don't understand how you can enjoy dating and getting laid when you are so bitter towards the opposite sex. It takes all the fun out of it! I'm in my early twenties and love the dating scene, but people date by being friendly to one another - not trying to hurt their feelings and ruin their lives.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with advice on how to be make friends and influence people (especially people of the "opposite" sex), especially if that advice helps us better understand and appreciate them. I recently showed my students Deborah Tannen's "He Said/She Said," for example, partly because I thought it gave both the boys and girls a better understanding of each others' conversational styles. And yeah, dating and sex are supposed to be fun, at least much of the time. That's how adults play, after all.
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