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Friday, August 22, 2014

Zoe Quinn

UPDATE: I came back to this blog after a few days off the internet, and was surprised to see the number of comments. Zoe Quinn is, to me, a complete "non-story" except insofar as yet another young woman being the target of online harassment. I'll admit I am not into games, and I'm in no position to judge whether or not she wrote a good one, but that is the only question anyone should care about. It's absurd to care a fig whether, or with whom, Ms. Quinn cheated on her boyfriend. Substitute the name "Tyler" for "Zoe," and imagine Zoe were the angry ex who had thrown up a website for the purpose of humiliating him. You can be sure "Zoe" would still be the target of angry, jealous little shitbots like Matt Forney. 
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So apparently Matt Forney's latest "doxing" victim is Zoe Quinn, a talented young female game designer who had the misfortune of having a vindictive ex. And so it goes...

54 comments:

  1. Of FFS. Is there no end to that twerp's jealousy? Why doesn't he just get some achievements of his own and stop worrying about other people.

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    1. No way, being constructive obviously scares the crap out of this guy. Everything the guy does is sheerly reactionary. There is no way that he is going to create, build or do anything on his own. The unethical $5 writing assignments are someone else's homework; exploiting American/$$ for sex is another form of posing, instead of being authentic; the trolling pretty much defines him as pushing buttons in response to others.

      It's possible he does have his own creations, thoughts and dreams but he is WAY too scared to do anything to make them happen. Or probably even speak them aloud. This is what Thoreau's quote about "living lives of quiet desperation" looks like IRL.

      He is only comfortable when he is:

      1) Deconstructive -- taking apart another person's efforts maliciously (no resentment there, suuuure)
      2) Positioning himself to play games where he is rigged to win (exploiting people and situations in developing nations)


      If he had to admit this to himself -- that his life is essentially a house of cards that would collapse with the faintest breath of reality -- he would probably self-destruct. I have no doubt that in rare moments of self-honesty he has suicidal ideations.

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    2. One more thought: If you'll notice, the guy entirely defines himself by negating things. What we know about him is what he rails against, criticizes and diminishes. That is pretty telling, if you ask me.

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  2. I can't even begin to contemplate the kind of karmic beat-down this guy is in for.

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  3. Zosimus the HeathenAugust 24, 2014 at 4:41 AM

    I remember watching, years ago, a so-bad-it's-bloody-brilliant Chuck Norris flick called Firewalker, which began with the aforementioned actor's character (and his sidekick) being pursued through the desert by their arch-enemy: a bald villain known simply as "the General" IIRC. Anyway, the General and his minions eventually caught the pair, and staked them out in the desert to die. In a cruel twist, the General left each with a bottle of water, which the man in question would obviously be unable to drink, being staked out on the ground and all. He began gloating about how the pair would die slowly of thirst while the water they needed lay just out of reach, to which Chuck Norris's character replied, "And you'll still be bald", which promptly ruined the General's good mood. I sometimes think this would make a good rebuttal to Matt Forney every time he starts gloating about doxxing, or otherwise endeavouring to ruin the life of, yet another woman he deems to be a "slut feminist bulldyke cunt" or whatever. "Yes, and you'll still be bald."

    I also see MF's relocated to the Philippines. Having met a few nice people from that country over the years, I can't helping wondering what their compatriots have done to deserve him!

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  4. Eh, I'm not so sure Zoe Quinn is innocent in all this. If she *did* sleep with people for good reviews, that's a breach of journalistic ethics, and her ex wouldn't be unjustified in telling the world to watch out for that sorta thing.

    On the other hand, that's also a big *if*...I dunno which side is telling the truth here, and honestly, I don't much care. It's the sort of sordid issue one would be well-advised to stay away from. Ironically enough, the incessant manosphere/misogynist obsession with the affair is giving her more attention and making her look like a martyr.

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    1. I think cheating on someone is just about the most selfish thing one person can do to another. And I am not rooting for ANYONE in this saga. They all appear to be pretty immature, between the cheating and the doxxing.

      That said:
      *There is no evidence that she received good reviews from sleeping around

      *The MRA/PUA community is built on deceit, abuse and manipulation. These are the people whose mission in life is to scam and exploit people for sex. If they were really interested in integrity, they would go to CraigsList for NSA hookups and be done with it.

      That they think they have any kind of leg to stand on in regards to morality is laughable.

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    2. MRAs and PUAs hate each other, fyi. And how is it that MRAs are interested in scamming for sex when they're somewhat related to MGTOWs, who swear off sex with women?

      By the way, the angriest group I've found about this is women who like video games and want to go into development. I think it makes sense for women to be mad their positions might have been taken by someone willing to cheat the system. I think it makes sense for them to be mad that there might be an expectation for them to sexually pay for coverage. I think it makes sense for them to be angry all women developers close to this and in the future might be put under a more intense microscope for wrongdoings.

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    3. @Anon 12:34PM

      MRAs and PUAs hate everyone! Most of all, themselves. Despite this mutual enmity, both groups are built on some pretty hardcore misogyny, especially abuse and manipulation of others. That much is true, even if they are not in solidarity.

      MRAs may not be interested in scamming for sex, you could very well be right there. If only they would shut up about how much sex they're not having!

      I don't know the female gamer community, so will have to read up more about this. Where would recommend I start?

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    4. unsupported ad-homs, because this is the internet. Well done. Of course, when you actually spew propaganda and know jack shit of what you're talking about, expect to be called on it...

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  5. *There is no evidence that she received good reviews from sleeping around
    Kind of hard to make that sort of statement if you won't look for evidence, isn't it?

    Never mind, eh? Stick with the narrative you feel comfortable with, that's always worked in the past hasn't it?

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    1. What evidence have you got? That's the "narrative" I'm interested in: Evidence that backs up claims.

      I DESPISE cheaters, and see no one in this story to root for. That still doesn't mean that I can allow personal bias to permit falsehood.

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    2. Why are you embarassing yourself? There are no reviews whatsoever, apart from one that is a list of 50 games that got into Greenlight.

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  6. Zoe's definition of rape includes having sex with your spouse after you've cheated on them.

    Zoe had sex with her boyfriend after she cheated on him. Zoe Quinn raped her boyfriend, and admits to it.

    Zoe Quinn, or Chelsea van Valkenburg, is NOT a victim.

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  7. To all you people defending Zoe Quinn, you reeeeeaaaaaally should look into who she is and what she's done to people in her industry.

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    1. Who is defending her? I already said I think cheating is selfish, despicable and pretty damn pathetic.

      Does cheating on a partner mean that it's okay to dox them? This, apparently, is where we part ways.

      As far as I am concerned, her behavior sucks and her character is weak. Does this bad behavior and weak character give me -- an outside party who is not involved in their relationship-- the right to harass her? No, it does not.

      When I was cheated on, this was my response: Accept that the relationship was over. Leave and use my anger as fuel for making my life better in every area. NOT to dox him or make a website categorizing how I'd been wronged.

      This guy is investing his time, energy and reputation (which, hello, google is forever!) in perpetuating his conflict with Zoe. None of these things will restore the relationship. The relationship is over, whether or not he accepts that.

      Not only that, but when he eventually moves on, potential dates who google this guy will see that he's into drama and pretty immature. So this hurts his reputation and future, too.

      There are no winners here. The smartest move either of them could make would be to shut the hell up and to focus on their work, understanding their relationship patterns. and improving their individual character.

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    2. He's the one who broke up with HER

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    3. Agreed, who cares who broke up with who? These are real people not soap opera characters.

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    4. It is not about cheating (unless to point out the monumental hipocrisy of said person who actually defended that cheating is raping your 'official' sexual partner).

      this article seems to explain it very concisely :

      http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart/

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  8. I wrote about this in the RationalWiki-Clogosphere Talk section:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RationalWiki_talk:What_is_going_on_in_the_clogosphere%3F#The_Zoe_Quinn_Ordeal

    It was collapsed eventually because trolls gonna troll, but click the "show" button and read if you are interested.

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    1. "The only thing I can say is that I feel like sane people are consistently outnumbered. Ikanreed (talk) 20:22, 20 August 2014 (UTC)"

      That sums it up.

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    2. That usually is my feeling too when I see comments sections bursting with MRAs/antifeminists/4channers/libertarians/ancaps etc etc.

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  9. From what I can gather, the journalist she's alleged to have slept with didn't actually write a review for her, but even if she had, it would be the journalist who was breeching journalistic ethics, being the journalist and all.

    As for the rest, it's no one's business except for the people concerned. She's a game designer, not a spiritual or political leader, so the morality of her private life is irrelevant. She hasn't broken any laws so why does anyone care?

    Oh, and I would be saying the same thing if it was a male game designer who's sexual history was currently the subject of online hysteria.

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    1. As long as it was connected to journalist in the industry and his possible connections to them.

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    2. snork maiden: You are absolutely right. One of the points her critics make is that someone made a false DMCA claim about a video criticising her game. Which is not bad of a point. Although we don't have proof of her being the one who did it, if she did it makes her look a bit catty and petty.

      On the other hand, how many MRAs, 4channers, incels etc will go after Stefan Molyneux, who has done the same thing and we know, without doubt, that he is the one who did it because he confessed it whilst chatting with his buddy:

      https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140821/18211228288/anarcho-capitalist-stefan-molyneux-who-doesnt-support-copyright-abuses-dmca-to-silence-critic.shtml

      Protecting ethics, my ass.

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    3. http://themundanematt.tumblr.com/post/95428752119/dmca-notice-and-removal

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    4. I checked out kokatu, the site she was meant to have got her friendly review from, they are denying categorically that the journalist in question ever wrote a review for Zoe Quinn's game.

      It seems like the accusations against Quinn are based on a lot of speculation, motivated by peoples' scorn over her private life, which as I say again, is no one's business but the people involved.

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    5. Several journalists have supported her financially and several are currently financially backing her projects. Kotaku is embroiled in the issue as well, so to use them as a trusted source would be a fallacy. Especially given the fact that it has just recently come out that another journalist (Patricia Hernandez) was living with a developer and giving them positive reviews instead of recusing herself. Gaming journalists are far too close to indie developers and the reason this issue isn't being taken too seriously is because Gaming is a niche market, and the journalists and the media who should be reporting on the issue are the ones that are involved with the issue.

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    6. please actually dig into the dark moldy rabbit hole: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart/

      This is not a simple case of sexual privacy or slut shaming...

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  10. BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN

    I am an American man, and I have decided to boycott American women. In a nutshell, American women are the most likely to cheat on you, to divorce you, to get fat, to steal half of your money in the divorce courts, don't know how to cook or clean, don't want to have children, etc. Therefore, what intelligent man would want to get involved with American women?

    American women are generally immature, selfish, extremely arrogant and self-centered, mentally unstable, irresponsible, and highly unchaste. The behavior of most American women is utterly disgusting, to say the least.

    This blog is my attempt to explain why I feel American women are inferior to foreign women (non-American women), and why American men should boycott American women, and date/marry only foreign (non-American) women.

    BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN!

    http://boycottamericanwomen.blogspot.com/

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    1. Oh, honey, you forgot to take your meds this morn, again.

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    2. @Anonymous #1

      You already posted this, not spamming are you?

      Delete
  11. "Substitute the name 'Tyler' for 'Zoe,' and imagine Zoe were the angry ex who had thrown up a website for the purpose of humiliating him."

    If that happened, then the issue of journalistic integrity would have disappeared forever within hours, since he wouldn't be able to use his being-born-with-a-penis as a defense to his insidious acts.

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    1. If that happened the gaters would'nt have given a shit.

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  12. A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding why the gaming community is pissed off with Zoe. It's not about who she slept with. It's not about how she's a domestic abuser, or the person she sexually harassed, or how she and Phil Fish intimidated her victim in to apologizing for being sexually harassed. It's not even about how crappy her game is, or whether a "choose-your-own-adventure" eBook qualifies as a game. Hell, they aren't even really pissed with Zoe.

    What this is about is pure and simple: a game developer had unprofessional liaisons with multiple game journalists who in turn wrote positive reviews without disclosure of possible personal bias while said relationship(s) were on-going. Then, it turns out, that close personal friends of Zoe's- who work for various game development companies- were in turn also maintaining unprofessional relationships with individuals who were on the boards of several organizations designed to promote independent video games (such as Indie Games Fest). These latter individuals had the power to award prize money and resources to various competition winners. All competition winners were personal friends of Zoe Quinn and often Maya Kramer; not a single developer who was NOT a personal friend of Zoe Quinn ever won a competition or award.

    Now, I can't tell if you're just one of the zealots that are lashing out at the game community or if you really don't know the depth of what's going on. I'm hoping it's the latter, but I'm not holding my breath; "misogyny" seems to be defined as "criticizing anyone who identifies as female, regardless that the actual reason for the criticism has nothing to do with her sex". Phil Fish and Nathan Grayson, two individuals with dangly bits have been the target of just as much criticism- and Robin Arnott appears to be up next. This has nothing to do with Zoe's vagina, or her boobs, or her chromosomes, or that she was sleeping with people without her at-the-time boyfriend's knowledge. It has EVERYTHING to do with transparency and unstated agenda-pushing in journalism- particularly game journalism.

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    1. Hmm, you say it's not about her private life, so why do you make so many excoriating references to it?

      If those involved are only concerned about ethics and corruption, then why is Zoe Quinn being subjected to a campaign of sexual harassment and humiliation, with nude photos of her being circulated and constant speculation about her sexual conduct not to mention threats of violence towards her. The attacks against her are intensely personal and sexually motivated. If there is an honest case to be made against her professional conduct, it's being undermined by the brutish behaviour of many of her detractors.

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    2. Hmm, you say it's not about her private life, so why do you make so many excoriating references to it?

      If those involved are only concerned about ethics and corruption, then why is Zoe Quinn being subjected to a campaign of sexual harassment and humiliation, with nude photos of her being circulated and constant speculation about her sexual conduct not to mention threats of violence towards her. The attacks against her are intensely personal and sexually motivated. If there is an honest case to be made against her professional conduct, it's being undermined by the brutish behaviour of many of her detractors.

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    3. Yeah...no. Your faux ethics concerns are well addressed here:
      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/06/attacks-on-women-in-gaming-are-so-obviously-not-about-ethics-but-about-misogyny/

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    4. anything written by amanda marcotte doesnt count - unless she can come here and dialog

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  13. We hear about men cheating all the time and they are condemned. Why pretend otherwise? If a married man was sleeping with a reported, we hear about that. It happens in politics all the time, and those people are condemned and kicked out.

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    1. The personal integrity of politicians is more relevant, those people make the laws the way the rest of us behave which is why the need to be careful of how their own characters are perceived.

      But Zoe Quinn is just a game designer, and I'm sure she wouldn't be the first creative type to receive a good review from someone she's friendly with, it's a pretty small world in the gaming community after all.

      And what Zoe Quinn is being subjected to is above and beyond a bit of moral judgement. People are speculating publicly on how best to drive her to suicide, and obsessively circulating nude photos of her and suggesting ways to physically harm her, all the while claiming 'it's all about the ethics'. The hatred being expressed towards her seems incredibly disproportionate to anything she may or may not have done. And screen shots taken from certain message boards suggest Quinn was being plotted against for quite some time.

      When a male public figure is caught with his pants down, people do snigger for a while, maybe he'll be forced to resign (before landing a lucrative gig elsewhere) then everyone moves on. And I'm not saying it should be any worse for them, but I really don't understand this desire to destroy a woman over her private life.

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    2. That desire comes from a very dark place in a male psyche, which is obsessed with controlling female sexuality in any and all ways possible.

      Much of the manuresphere, for example, is driven by that motivation, not even thinly disguised. From Elliot Rodger's manifesto through every manurespheric blog, including those piously Christian ones like Dalrock's, the main and sometimes the only theme there is control of female sexuality (or more accurately, lack of it) by individual men and (allegedly) society as a whole. For instance, the on-going slut-shaming that most manurespherians specialize in is nothing but.

      We are really talking about psychopathology of the male psyche, brought to the surface and open for study. And it is pathology, let's be clear about it. Normal, emotionally healthy men do not indulge such dark desires, even if they may experience them sometimes, and certainly do not act on them.

      Thanks to the Internet in general and manuresphere in particular, we have the first row seats to the scary, but also fascinating, spectacle of the dark but everyday insanity made visible (if not clear). Yay...

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    3. "We are really talking about psychopathology of the male psyche" wow, that would totally make you a misogynist, if you were talking about women. Stop hating men, it aint good for you. And eat your cereals.

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    4. LOL, you're still here, Y? Don't you have some misogyny to unload somewhere else, with a more receptive audience?

      For the record, calling a spade a spade does not a hater make. We are talking about the inhabitants of the manuresphere, who are, almost by definition -- and their own demonstrable behaviors -- suffering from various forms of diagnosable disorders, never mind the everyday pathology, such as it exists.

      Speaking of which, the desire to control female sexuality is extremely common in males (human and not only) and a source of almost all misogyny since forever. But it comes from a very primitive corner of a male psyche and one that most civilized, emotionally healthy men have learned to curb and sublimate. Manurespherians, not so much.

      I know you may not realize it, but not all men are manurespherians or think and act like manurespherians. For example, the (wonderful) men in my own life would have nothing to do with the manuresphere. As a matter of fact, my occasional dispatches from the manurespherian trenches are a source of amusement to my husband.

      If you think women here are harsh in our opinions of the 'sphere, you should listen sometimes to what normal, emotionally healthy men (yes, they exist and there are many of them) say about it. (I guess I could quote my husband's words, but I don't think Cinzia would let my comment stand. He's not approving, let's just say that.)

      Now off you go, dear, I'm sure you're awaited in more friendly environs.

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    5. Yup, still here. Want a cup of coffee?

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  14. Side note, she gets attention by playing the feminist victim - that's a talent, sure - but she's not a talented "game developer". My students can do what she did and their games wont go up on steam and no one will ever talk about their amateur stuff, because they are not doing the marketing right. Change gender, dudes, tint your hair, and cry rape, then you get your games promoted.

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    1. I don't think it's 'playing the victim' when you're actually being victimized, which Quinn currently is being. She actually seems to be handling it pretty well by documenting all that is being done against her. How do you think she should behave under these circumstances. If her numerous haters don't want her receiving sympathy they should stop targeting her.

      If you don't like her games, don't play them. It's not like GTA V will come off the shelves any time soon.

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    2. She cried harassment against a group of virgin male "wizard" freaks and used the community support to get greenlight for her game. She cried harassment against a rival game jam that was pro women and was able to shut them down. All that before the current scandal. What should she do now? I think she's doing fine and will be able to profit on this. "Im not a bitch, all my haters hate women" or some other gaslighting trick. People are so easy. Even I would want to help the damsel in distress, if I didnt know better.

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  15. "Substitute the name "Tyler" for "Zoe," and imagine Zoe were the angry ex who had thrown up a website for the purpose of humiliating him. "

    Women / society / men humiliating men for sexual misconduct - happens all the time. For women? not so much. We have slut walks but we dont have manwhore walks. What's unusual about this case is that a guy is whining about a woman and not EVERYONE is hating him for it but he got some support.

    If a woman was whining about a man then EVERYONE would support her. Check mainstream media.

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    1. But do they? Can you give a recent example of where a man was subjected to this level of sexual harassment? I remember when people were making fun of Tiger Woods over his affairs, and his career did hit a temporary bump, but I don't remember any reports of him being deluged with death threats by complete strangers.

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    2. Yes, they do. Tiger Woods wife knocked him out with a golf club - did she get charged with domestic violence? Then Tiger apologized and when to therapy and all the charade. Zoe doesnt even need to apologize or go to therapy or admit to fault, crying for help is enough.

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