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Friday, October 24, 2014
Mike Cernovich -- Bullied or Bullier?
Mike Cernovich is the body-building non-practicing attorney / Matt Forney mentor / RoK contributor who hosts the website Danger & Play ("for men who want more out of life" -- or at least higher testosterone levels). You might expect someone who has recently been admitted to the California bar to be busy building a practice, but not Mr. C.! Instead, he is taking a year off to promote his own enterprise (selling juicers & things). For the past month or so he has also been aggressively positioning himself in the forefront of the GamerGate "movement." And now, after weeks of pummeling Zoe Quinn online he is getting a taste of his own medicine.
Hey, I think we can all agree that doxxing is evil -- although I'm not sure posting a photo of a publicly listed law office address qualifies as "doxxing" when the owner of that address is making every effort to promote his legal prowess; I believe that's called "googling". (Apparently the accused doxxer did not realize it was also Mr. Cernovich's residence; she has apologized and removed the photo). Certainly, deliberately filing false or frivolous police reports is wrong.
Yet one cannot help thinking, "What goes around, comes around."
And now I know who Peter Fox is, so the evening has not been a total waste.
UPDATE: A few days have passed, and in that short time I have come to see this post as naive. Cernovich was no doubt tickled pink to have been "doxxed." He's actively looking for opportunities to wreak havoc, create doubt, and thereby take cynical advantage of the #gamergate chaos. Just... unbelievably evil...
So funny. To me, the moral of this story is: Do Not Go To Law School (unless you're getting a free ride at some top-10 school and your parents have connections, or something.) If dude could make anything resembling a living at law, he wouldn't be hawking dubious nutritional advice and scrounging ad revenue and... piling onto the wrong side of a twitter feud that has nothing to do with him. That just smells like stone cold desperation to me.
I'd feel a little sorry for him, but it's been widely known for at least a few years that law schools are churning out a glut of entry-level lawyers, right at the same time that Middle America quit having money to pay for legal services. Even gigantic corporate establishments cut legal staff during the recession. There just isn't anywhere for a lot of them to go.
And how is that even doxxing: he blogs under his real name and listed that addy on avvo.co-- under the exact same name! lol Oh, the drama.
I think he's doing alright considering he can afford a custom fit mouthpiece to participate in a sport he only does as a hobby, and show that equipment alongside a $10,000 challenge, with plans to fly himself to New York if that challenge is accepted. Plus you people have heard of him and all his ventures so apparently he's a good marketer too.
Hey there! I read your, ahem, review of this blog over on your blog. It was pretty funny, though it would help if you'd got at least some of the facts right :) Cinzia's not actually a man you know.
Btw, I'm the 'poster child for parkinsons' who made the flow chart you didn't apparently get the gist of.
So, Mike Cernovich, can afford a decent mouth guard? Clearly he is a living god.
It's the nom de plume of the woman who writes this blog. Shouldn't you sort of, you know, read a blog if you're going to review it?
You might not be reading the posts, but it appears you're getting hooked by the comments section. Are you going to be our new Yohami? (He's another red pill type regular on here).
Yeah I was misled by the cross-dressing post that insinuated heavily how the author was born a man. Maybe reading the blog is what threw me off. So maybe I should actually do that less.
"Fact is, in all my years of being an XX person-in-drag, I had never taken advantage of a 'Ladies Night' special. In large part, this is because I have always recognized on a subconscious level that because I was not the kind of 'lady' these promotions were designed to attract, taking advantage was a violation of the terms of an unwritten contract. I would be cheating the system. Then I fell in with a group of cross dressers who thought such promotions were a fun way to 'turn the tables,' so I thought, Why the hell not?"
It's very easy to read that as you dressing as an XX in drag (or just your version of a woman), and that combined with you explaining that you're "not the kind of lady guys want in bars" is odd language for a "cis".
I think what's interesting about gamergate is how it's mobilised a whole section of previously silent gamers.
I think it's taken a lot of feminists by surprise that these often derided young men have reacted with such conviction to there efforts to tell them what to think.
It's probably the first time in a long time that feminists have come up against this sort of push back to their agenda.
But at the same time is it any surprise. After all these young men are the ones who have nothing in the current social order. To have there sanctuary invaded was undoubtedly a step too far.
I must say looking at the momentum it does seem that the men's right movement is gaining more out of this than sjws.
I know you one said that the manosphere was a reaction to the economic downturn but that seems a little naive now.
I think we are seeing a general reaction to years of liberalism gone mad.
Men in general are a pretty much apathetic bunch but this last bastion of maleness is proving a tough nut to crack.
I wonder if those liberals regret poking this particular anthill. Interesting times indeed.
"It's probably the first time in a long time that feminists have come up against this sort of push back to their agenda."
LOL! Darlin', get thee to the library, or crack yer Google, and start reading up on feminism.
Gamergate is a tempest in a little teapot compared with what feminism has faced and dealt with. It is just another typical -- and, let's face it, mostly irrelevant to the world at large -- reaction of a group of angry men having their sense of privilege and entitlement challenged by society's progress.
This too shall pass, and we'll be the better for it.
Comparing feminism's roots to the watered down ideologically-severed matriarchy-pushing commercialized garbage we see today is about as apt as comparing the pyramids to Legos. When you had men like Condorcet weaving logical explanations and theories promoting feminism's emergence, there was real thought being put into the movement. Now it's part hate, part victimization, part politics, and all commercial, dramatized trendiness that will manufacture a problem if one doesn't exist.
The feminism of today is brand new, looking nothing like the movement that brought about women's suffrage, and this trendy wave of superficial anger, divorced from any ideological depth among 99% of its followers, will not last when it's rubber ties with mainstream and commercial allies (trying to appeal to the loudest crowd and play it safe until the pendulum swings again) snaps.
Well if we're playing semantics you could say matrifocal, or you could see it more generally as an anthropological view of female dominance in overall society, not just the family. But even pretending you have such an intellectual and elitist view of 'matriarchy' that what you deem as the "layman" usage (i.e. popular usage) is indecipherable to you, I think you can insert whatever word you want instead of matriarchy and still get what I'm saying. But it doesn't sound like you want to address it, because modern feminism has really become a parody that substantively satisfies no one.
Darlin', you wouldn't know semantics from anthropological if both of them bit you on your saggy bottom. That botched, um, review (?) of Cinzia's blog is proof enough that you should leave brain stuffs to bipeds, as apparently nothing good comes from letting goats near computer.
"And that's as much as you will ever need to know about rooshnme.blogspot.com. Ever."
Yes, obviously -- if you are the goat from TMTatGS.
Don't quit your day job at the stables, the NYT won't be calling any time soon.
@m,t, & goat Are you talking about that guy from Gawker? Cernovich knew Biddle wasn't going to take him up on that; that was an extremely low-risk bet for him both financially and physically. I'm a lot more entertained than impressed on that front. (And I doubt even the custom-est of custom mouthpieces is more than a couple hundred bucks. Oooooooh so fancy) As to knowing about Mike's antics, what can I say? the manosphere is my trashy reality tv. :D No one I know IRL seems to share my disgusting fascination with it so I come talk to Cinzia.
I'm glad gamergaters are finally admitting it's not REALLY about ethics and is in fact nothing but a bunch of lil boys mad that their "sanctuary" is a) not exclusively theirs and b) not above critique. Refreshing honesty, that!
It would've been too easy for Biddle to call him out on that bluff if it was one (without even actually getting in the ring) for a guy like Mike to risk the embarrassment in that way. And it is fancy enough for LeBron James. The point being made is that for someone who supposedly can't even squeak out a real stabile living, dropping that kind of money for a small hobby (where most people buy a $7 boil-and-bite mouthpiece) is odd. Of course custom mouthpieces are cheap when compared to cars, houses and really big guns.
And I'm glad you like his antics. I'm sure he's even more glad.
I'm not arguing that he's not eking out a living at his current gig. I'm saying I don't think he could hack it as an actual lawyer.
I think if the market were what it was maybe ten years ago, he'd have started practicing, made some decent money, enjoyed his hobbies, and not spent thousands of hours amassing cranky fanboys by mimicking a gorilla on the internet. But this isn't 2003, so there are already approximately a zillion broke and un/underemployed JDs out there.
I think he (belatedly) saw the writing on the wall and fell back on being a manosphere huckster instead. He's entertaining, but not admirable. I don't get the hero worship going on there, but... it's y'all's money.
And yeah, I think a lot of the manosphere is basically a reaction to a poor economy. The big names are just as corny and cynical as televangelists. It's not the average joe's fault that the financial crisis threw them out on their asses. But a few of the the more enterprising ones realized there was at least a little money to be made by selling third-rate philosophy and products to the disaffected rank-and-file. Personally, I don't think much of this material is going age well, but if people wanna send money to Joel Osteen or Mike Cernovich or whoever, well: it's a free country!
Having followed the link I wouldn't really classify this as a doxxing, just a critical piece on Cernovich, who's identity was already well known. I'm glad she took down the picture of his house though, that was out of order.
I love the way GGs think anything they say do or so will turn back feminism, or that people critiquing games will somehow impinge on their personal freedom.
First they came for the academics, and I did not speak out – because I was not an academic.
Then they came for the politicians, and I did not speak out – because I was not a politician.
Then they came for the office workers, and I did not speak out – because I was not an office worker.
Then they came for the gamers, and surprisingly that turned out to be a big fucking mistake.
Who would have thought that, out of all of society it would be die hard computer game nerds who drew a line in the sand against the feminists. Thinking about it though it makes sense. One of feminism’s main compliance tactics is the use of shaming. Shaming will only give you leverage if your opponent has something to lose by being shamed. That something is social position. When you’re a bit of an outcast, detached from society, you don’t have much of a position to lose. This is why the mainstream leftist media’s battle cry of, “You’re all misogynists!”, didn’t work on the gamers.
It's always an automatic deduction on student essays when they start out with openers like that.
"Shaming" as a "compliance tactic" is hardly limited to feminists. It's human social behavior.
Anyway, hard to shame someone who doesn't feel they have anything to be ashamed of, isn't it?
As far as gamergate being a bold stance against feminists, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I think it is simply going to make more manifest to the mainstream what kind of abuse women who dare to have a voice (in gaming, politics, whatever) are subjected to.
Out of interest, when you say 'they came for the gamers', what exactly did 'feminism' do or attempt to do to gamers?
So far all I can make out is that Anita Sarkeesian makes videos that some people don't like, and Zoe Quinn may have received some favourable reviews for her non profit game from some people she's buddies with, oh and she really upset one of her ex-boyfriends. Surely there's been more than that right?
That's why their is something unbelievably romantic about the gamers.
When every other section of society is bending over backwards for feminists/sjws ect ect it's gamers who have been the ones to draw a line in the sand.
And by the way these aren't the alpha males/manosphere bods that you take such special delight in ridiculing.
These are men who have been ridiculed all their lives. So what do they have to lose? Who would have thought they would be the last bastion of maleness.
I see that Quinn is now trying to get people to not engage with the gamergate hashtag. I think the SJWs have realised that they'be been completely outmanoeuvred on the twittersphere by the gamers. Not surprising when these guys live and breathe it..
Interesting that a person who is acclaimed to be such a talented gamer never thought about this, don't ya think?
"I think the SJWs have realised that they'be been completely outmanoeuvred on the twittersphere by the gamers."
Granted I don't live and breathe twitter, but I have been following a number of feeds lately, and I gotta say... that's not my impression! On the other hand, now that the story has broken into "mainstream" a la Colbert, the whole mess has collapsed and "twitter" can go on to get excited about something else.
The real developers and players will go making and playing games, and the angry little shitbots on twitter will find some other women will torment.
So funny. To me, the moral of this story is: Do Not Go To Law School (unless you're getting a free ride at some top-10 school and your parents have connections, or something.) If dude could make anything resembling a living at law, he wouldn't be hawking dubious nutritional advice and scrounging ad revenue and... piling onto the wrong side of a twitter feud that has nothing to do with him. That just smells like stone cold desperation to me.
ReplyDeleteI'd feel a little sorry for him, but it's been widely known for at least a few years that law schools are churning out a glut of entry-level lawyers, right at the same time that Middle America quit having money to pay for legal services. Even gigantic corporate establishments cut legal staff during the recession. There just isn't anywhere for a lot of them to go.
And how is that even doxxing: he blogs under his real name and listed that addy on avvo.co-- under the exact same name! lol Oh, the drama.
I think he's doing alright considering he can afford a custom fit mouthpiece to participate in a sport he only does as a hobby, and show that equipment alongside a $10,000 challenge, with plans to fly himself to New York if that challenge is accepted. Plus you people have heard of him and all his ventures so apparently he's a good marketer too.
ReplyDeleteHey there! I read your, ahem, review of this blog over on your blog. It was pretty funny, though it would help if you'd got at least some of the facts right :) Cinzia's not actually a man you know.
DeleteBtw, I'm the 'poster child for parkinsons' who made the flow chart you didn't apparently get the gist of.
So, Mike Cernovich, can afford a decent mouth guard? Clearly he is a living god.
(;
DeleteThank you for taking the point I was making about the mouthguard and not getting it on purpose so you can make a funny quip.
DeleteBut what's Cinzia? As you can tell I don't really read a whole lot of these posts.
They upset my anuerism.
DeleteIt's the nom de plume of the woman who writes this blog. Shouldn't you sort of, you know, read a blog if you're going to review it?
DeleteYou might not be reading the posts, but it appears you're getting hooked by the comments section. Are you going to be our new Yohami? (He's another red pill type regular on here).
Yeah I was misled by the cross-dressing post that insinuated heavily how the author was born a man. Maybe reading the blog is what threw me off. So maybe I should actually do that less.
Delete"Fact is, in all my years of being an XX person-in-drag, I had never taken advantage of a 'Ladies Night' special. In large part, this is because I have always recognized on a subconscious level that because I was not the kind of 'lady' these promotions were designed to attract, taking advantage was a violation of the terms of an unwritten contract. I would be cheating the system. Then I fell in with a group of cross dressers who thought such promotions were a fun way to 'turn the tables,' so I thought, Why the hell not?"
DeleteYou can understand my confusion.
Only if you don't know the difference between XX and XY.
DeleteIt's very easy to read that as you dressing as an XX in drag (or just your version of a woman), and that combined with you explaining that you're "not the kind of lady guys want in bars" is odd language for a "cis".
DeleteWhat can I say? I'm an odd kind of lady.
DeleteI think what's interesting about gamergate is how it's mobilised a whole section of previously silent gamers.
ReplyDeleteI think it's taken a lot of feminists by surprise that these often derided young men have reacted with such conviction to there efforts to tell them what to think.
It's probably the first time in a long time that feminists have come up against this sort of push back to their agenda.
But at the same time is it any surprise. After all these young men are the ones who have nothing in the current social order. To have there sanctuary invaded was undoubtedly a step too far.
I must say looking at the momentum it does seem that the men's right movement is gaining more out of this than sjws.
I know you one said that the manosphere was a reaction to the economic downturn but that seems a little naive now.
I think we are seeing a general reaction to years of liberalism gone mad.
Men in general are a pretty much apathetic bunch but this last bastion of maleness is proving a tough nut to crack.
I wonder if those liberals regret poking this particular anthill. Interesting times indeed.
"It's probably the first time in a long time that feminists have come up against this sort of push back to their agenda."
ReplyDeleteLOL! Darlin', get thee to the library, or crack yer Google, and start reading up on feminism.
Gamergate is a tempest in a little teapot compared with what feminism has faced and dealt with. It is just another typical -- and, let's face it, mostly irrelevant to the world at large -- reaction of a group of angry men having their sense of privilege and entitlement challenged by society's progress.
This too shall pass, and we'll be the better for it.
Comparing feminism's roots to the watered down ideologically-severed matriarchy-pushing commercialized garbage we see today is about as apt as comparing the pyramids to Legos. When you had men like Condorcet weaving logical explanations and theories promoting feminism's emergence, there was real thought being put into the movement. Now it's part hate, part victimization, part politics, and all commercial, dramatized trendiness that will manufacture a problem if one doesn't exist.
DeleteThe feminism of today is brand new, looking nothing like the movement that brought about women's suffrage, and this trendy wave of superficial anger, divorced from any ideological depth among 99% of its followers, will not last when it's rubber ties with mainstream and commercial allies (trying to appeal to the loudest crowd and play it safe until the pendulum swings again) snaps.
I'm sorry, but you lost me at "matriarchy-pushing."
DeleteThat word, matriarchy, does not mean what you think it means.
Well if we're playing semantics you could say matrifocal, or you could see it more generally as an anthropological view of female dominance in overall society, not just the family. But even pretending you have such an intellectual and elitist view of 'matriarchy' that what you deem as the "layman" usage (i.e. popular usage) is indecipherable to you, I think you can insert whatever word you want instead of matriarchy and still get what I'm saying. But it doesn't sound like you want to address it, because modern feminism has really become a parody that substantively satisfies no one.
DeleteDarlin', you wouldn't know semantics from anthropological if both of them bit you on your saggy bottom. That botched, um, review (?) of Cinzia's blog is proof enough that you should leave brain stuffs to bipeds, as apparently nothing good comes from letting goats near computer.
Delete"And that's as much as you will ever need to know about rooshnme.blogspot.com. Ever."
Yes, obviously -- if you are the goat from TMTatGS.
Don't quit your day job at the stables, the NYT won't be calling any time soon.
@m,t, & goat Are you talking about that guy from Gawker? Cernovich knew Biddle wasn't going to take him up on that; that was an extremely low-risk bet for him both financially and physically. I'm a lot more entertained than impressed on that front. (And I doubt even the custom-est of custom mouthpieces is more than a couple hundred bucks. Oooooooh so fancy) As to knowing about Mike's antics, what can I say? the manosphere is my trashy reality tv. :D No one I know IRL seems to share my disgusting fascination with it so I come talk to Cinzia.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad gamergaters are finally admitting it's not REALLY about ethics and is in fact nothing but a bunch of lil boys mad that their "sanctuary" is a) not exclusively theirs and b) not above critique. Refreshing honesty, that!
It would've been too easy for Biddle to call him out on that bluff if it was one (without even actually getting in the ring) for a guy like Mike to risk the embarrassment in that way. And it is fancy enough for LeBron James. The point being made is that for someone who supposedly can't even squeak out a real stabile living, dropping that kind of money for a small hobby (where most people buy a $7 boil-and-bite mouthpiece) is odd. Of course custom mouthpieces are cheap when compared to cars, houses and really big guns.
DeleteAnd I'm glad you like his antics. I'm sure he's even more glad.
I'm not arguing that he's not eking out a living at his current gig. I'm saying I don't think he could hack it as an actual lawyer.
DeleteI think if the market were what it was maybe ten years ago, he'd have started practicing, made some decent money, enjoyed his hobbies, and not spent thousands of hours amassing cranky fanboys by mimicking a gorilla on the internet. But this isn't 2003, so there are already approximately a zillion broke and un/underemployed JDs out there.
I think he (belatedly) saw the writing on the wall and fell back on being a manosphere huckster instead. He's entertaining, but not admirable. I don't get the hero worship going on there, but... it's y'all's money.
And yeah, I think a lot of the manosphere is basically a reaction to a poor economy. The big names are just as corny and cynical as televangelists. It's not the average joe's fault that the financial crisis threw them out on their asses. But a few of the the more enterprising ones realized there was at least a little money to be made by selling third-rate philosophy and products to the disaffected rank-and-file. Personally, I don't think much of this material is going age well, but if people wanna send money to Joel Osteen or Mike Cernovich or whoever, well: it's a free country!
Having followed the link I wouldn't really classify this as a doxxing, just a critical piece on Cernovich, who's identity was already well known. I'm glad she took down the picture of his house though, that was out of order.
ReplyDeleteI love the way GGs think anything they say do or so will turn back feminism, or that people critiquing games will somehow impinge on their personal freedom.
I think we can all agree this sums it up:
ReplyDeletehttp://betatopua.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/first-they-came/
First they came for the academics, and I did not speak out – because I was not an academic.
Then they came for the politicians, and I did not speak out – because I was not a politician.
Then they came for the office workers, and I did not speak out – because I was not an office worker.
Then they came for the gamers, and surprisingly that turned out to be a big fucking mistake.
Who would have thought that, out of all of society it would be die hard computer game nerds who drew a line in the sand against the feminists. Thinking about it though it makes sense. One of feminism’s main compliance tactics is the use of shaming. Shaming will only give you leverage if your opponent has something to lose by being shamed. That something is social position. When you’re a bit of an outcast, detached from society, you don’t have much of a position to lose. This is why the mainstream leftist media’s battle cry of, “You’re all misogynists!”, didn’t work on the gamers.
It's always an automatic deduction on student essays when they start out with openers like that.
Delete"Shaming" as a "compliance tactic" is hardly limited to feminists. It's human social behavior.
Anyway, hard to shame someone who doesn't feel they have anything to be ashamed of, isn't it?
As far as gamergate being a bold stance against feminists, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I think it is simply going to make more manifest to the mainstream what kind of abuse women who dare to have a voice (in gaming, politics, whatever) are subjected to.
Out of interest, when you say 'they came for the gamers', what exactly did 'feminism' do or attempt to do to gamers?
DeleteSo far all I can make out is that Anita Sarkeesian makes videos that some people don't like, and Zoe Quinn may have received some favourable reviews for her non profit game from some people she's buddies with, oh and she really upset one of her ex-boyfriends. Surely there's been more than that right?
They wanted them to comply with their agenda.
ReplyDeleteThat's why their is something unbelievably romantic about the gamers.
When every other section of society is bending over backwards for feminists/sjws ect ect it's gamers who have been the ones to draw a line in the sand.
And by the way these aren't the alpha males/manosphere bods that you take such special delight in ridiculing.
These are men who have been ridiculed all their lives. So what do they have to lose? Who would have thought they would be the last bastion of maleness.
I see that Quinn is now trying to get people to not engage with the gamergate hashtag. I think the SJWs have realised that they'be been completely outmanoeuvred on the twittersphere by the gamers. Not surprising when these guys live and breathe it..
Interesting that a person who is acclaimed to be such a talented gamer never thought about this, don't ya think?
"I think the SJWs have realised that they'be been completely outmanoeuvred on the twittersphere by the gamers."
DeleteGranted I don't live and breathe twitter, but I have been following a number of feeds lately, and I gotta say... that's not my impression! On the other hand, now that the story has broken into "mainstream" a la Colbert, the whole mess has collapsed and "twitter" can go on to get excited about something else.
The real developers and players will go making and playing games, and the angry little shitbots on twitter will find some other women will torment.
"That's why their is something unbelievably romantic about the gamers."
DeleteThis is officially the funniest thing I've read all week.
Or maybe that gamers are "the last bastion of maleness" -- can't decide.
But I'm fairly certain that Anon @ 1:46 PM should get out more often.